Thursday, August 28, 2008

Interview with Chari by French Abhyasis 01/06/2008

Thank you to Alexis for a copy of this interview of Chari in France, 01/06/2008
You will surely notice the "love" and "uniting" qualities of this self-appointed Master of Spirituality of SRCM(California), registered in 1997 in San Luis Obispo, California, USA. and it's "trade marked" commercial product: SAHAJ MARG.

For comments on this interview of Chari, see: Chari's Views on the West and Occidentals

Provisional translation of informal exchanges
between Chariji and an abhyasi of SRCM (California)
On 01/06/2008 at Guy Joris (France)


Abhyasi: Master does one play the violin without emotion?

Chari: Stay in constant remembrance, think of the Master. Simply do so, regardless of notes and effects. The music in Europe is too strict, it lacks freedom, is too concerned with effects, it is not music, but comedy.

Freedom, freedom, one can not applaud when one wants to applaud, everything is calculated.

A: What happens to my project of mixing styles of music?

C: Do not mix, let the heart play. We should not write music... that is the first mistake.

A: And if one takes oriental instruments to play Western music?

C: You will ruin the oriental music. With our flutists, only the skeleton is there. The skeleton, and on top of that, God creates people, Jacky, this girl, this woman. So the skeleton must be there but what do you have? A piece of opera, Schuman, and the conductor is important, but what does he in fact do?

A: Not much

C: Nothing at all. We did not need him at all. And what's more, he earns more money than everyone. That's a comedy. The same music composed by the same man, with two different conductors, one sells more than the other, I do not know. Guy is a good musician. I asked him what was the difference. He said, but Chariji, he is such a good conductor. Wonderful! Wonderful! My opinion is personal.

A: But you say that to conduct a satsangh, we need a leader, a Conductor.

C: Do you not see the difference? That's why I do not listen to classical music. Before I loved it, but it is always the same thing. I can listen to a raga 50 times and it is always different. A raga has a base but that's all, no conductor. That's why jazz is not very popular you see, because with jazz we forget the people who watch, then why not the same thing with opera.

A: Tell me about a music that elevates the soul.

C: Some Indian music, or for the Germans, some pieces by Mozart. The music must come from the soul. There is the so-called Sufi music, one listens to it and falls asleep. It is not known what it is, the soul, and we do not know what a music that comes from the soul is.

That it is Sufi means nothing. I can scream and my dog and other dogs think that it's music. So music is not even a topic that we can talk about with Westerners (occidentals).

I express very strong opinions when I speak with abhyasis. And even your dances you know, they are not natural.

A: One puts rules and mathematics everywhere.

C: Yes everywhere, and too much. And not enough soul, even in meditation. Last night I was reflecting on the difficulties of Westerners and the facilities of the Orientals. I've come to a conclusion based on my reflections, in the Western world you have masters in the arts, crafts, engineering, etc.. all external things. You have masters of everything, electricity, plumbing, music, kitchen. He is a cordon bleu. You do not know the importance of things in relation to each other. Is the food so important that a great chef is paid 20,000 euros per month, it is nonsense.

Besides a scientist will only be paid 10,000 euros per month. Does this show the real importance of each thing? Schumacher, No. 1, what is his income, millions of dollars per year. He is like a dog running in a circle behind a bitch that he never gets to touch.

And the tennis players, they earn 10, 15, 20 million, why? Of course tennis is important and is good for the body but nothing else. In the Outside World, there is no relationship between what is important and this is not really, and the more you mix what is really important and what is apparently important, you pay a tennis player 30 million and a professor of science 3000 dollars. And a good cook because she can make a sauce, bismillah, really what a sauce, chutney in India, one should pay for chutney, not for the stove. So you see, everything is reversed in Europe and in the West. You have too many masters. In the East we are not concerned with the outside world, there are enough stupid people to do that for us. One goes inside, one is gone inside our whole life, since hundreds of years. It is a very difficult world. Here one can become an engineer, a banker if one has the education, but may be he does not know the difference between 10 euros and 1 euro because he uses a computer for that. In one billion, how many zeroes are there? 6. But here we will calculate 1 equals 3 power 10 power 4...oh no is that 6 or 9? So in the East one has very few masters. The inner world is not tangible, you can not feel it. You have too many masters on too many topics, including tennis, football. In the East there is only one subject, but it is a matter not only very difficult to understand but it is also infinite. Here you build a radio and you do what with it?... you listen, and that's it. In the inner world there is no end, the master continues and continues. In the Western spirit, you usually start something and it ends, the beginning and the end, Monday to Friday, then holidays, in spirituality there is no holiday, it is always and every day. There is no end. Hence the book by Babuji, Towards Infinity.

Chari's SRCM (California) MISSION in EUROPE

A: But do you think the mission is increasing in Europe

C: Yes it is growing because people who are able to understand are more numerous. In the material world, it is easy. But also in the material world when one goes to the smallest, it is infinite, there are molecules and atoms, the nucleus, the particles. To find them, we need larger and more larger machines. So, to reach the least one needs the more. In the interior, to reach the more, we need less. What does one need, one must eliminate all our exterior attention on girls, food, God, and reduce everything to arrive to one attention, interior, and that's it. So you see, there are too many masters of the outside world, everything is tangible, may be touched, felt. In the spiritual world, it is always less and less, and less. It is not known how much progress is being made, where it begins and where it ends.

A: It's hard to follow you because one must live in this world and earn money

C: No no it's not difficult for you, it's difficult for me. You come, you meditate and you say Chari is useless, since 20 years he comes and I have not changed. . But this is not my fault... is it my fault? It is your fault because you are wasting all your energy to make music. I will not play perhaps as well as you, but in three days I can play something. What can you do in meditation?

You're only capable of mastering the outside world, and you do not know what to do with your inner world. You do not want to obey the teacher, you say that you are free, France is the country of freedom, equality, fraternity. The freedom to do that which is bad, not to be disciplined, marrying many times to have a lot of sentimental adventures. And what equality, you killed a queen because she was born like that, you murdered her, and you make an annual celebration on the 14th of July. The pride of the french, this is your freedom, equality, fraternity.

And poor Marie Antoinette, killed. It's your idea of equality and fraternity. And brotherhood exists when there is wine to drink and you are drunk. You can have this kind freedom equality and fraternity. In spirituality there is only one equality, the soul. It is always the same and it is immortal, eternal, and every soul is equal to another. But you want the physical equality. The freedom of the soul is eternal. My soul is trapped in my body and the body has 5 senses, it wants kissing, touching, to do so many things, eat, drink. And the freedom of the french tells them they can drink, Chari. Ok drink, exercise your freedom and you'll come back over and over until you understand that this is not true freedom. They are your desires that make you come back, it is not God.

There was a body buried in a garden in Malaysia, and every Saturday we put in the tomb 6 bottles of beer in case the ghost came and would have liked to drink. So many attachments. It is a true story. And if they did not do this, there were problems at home, windows banging, things falling over. What to do, there are so many attachments that even without a body to benefit from our desires. Too many desires pass from the body into the soul, or rather in the ghost that remains in the corner looking for pizza or something else. And even if the body is dead, the ghost continues to want the pizza. And it affects all the pizzerias that double-close their doors.

Finally a priest comes, and if the priest is capable it works. Babuji said choose a master who knows his work and when you find him, attach yourself to him because you're the idiot who risks to let everything fall, it is not the teacher who will let you down.

ON the WEST (France)

A: So if I'm really focused, nothing in my life will affect me?

C: Nothing. This is the difference between East and West. Here there are too many masters. A person took a 3 day course to learn raiki she comes to see me to try to heal me. She wants me cured with a course of three days. You have courses that last a few days or weeks. When I was a boy, I wanted to do Yoga. I was not allowed to enter because all the girls were in skin-tights and it was unaffordable. But I instinctively knew that I had to do something in relation to yoga. To become really succeed at meditation, forget your Western ideas on skills, degrees, masters. You will not be a master carpenter, but a teacher who was also a carpenter before. But you are going to make me believe that a master carpenter is also a master in meditation? You can guarantee everything but you can not guarantee the brain of a brilliant man. We can not guarantee the spirituality of a man. When you go to Paris, there are so many streets and avenues named after Napoleon's generals. You glorify the war. Where are the old philosophers, I do not know if they exist, or they appoint a sports stadium (in their honour) somewhere.

So spirituality should be getting rid of everything. That is what I had to say to you today, all these thoughts that I have. Why east and west are so different? The difference is in the surrounding, not in the brain. The same soul, the same environment, it does not have a East or West environment, but a loving environment. Why does the east and the west not join?


A: Samskaras?

C: No it's like saying why is he black or why is he white, samskaras... it is not it. It is the quality of the environment. We make our own universe which is a world of fantasy, and there we live and there we are happy. There is a beautiful film about a woman who takes her two children to school, and everybody dies. The husband goes to hell to bring back his family. And he finds his wife living in a beautiful and happy house at the bottom of hell and it has great difficulty in making her leave again. That's love. Babuji said we have to learn so much about the quality of life but at some moment we must get to the bottom of hell to be able to emerge. If a man climbs a tree and can not climb back down, he can jump. But if there is a precipice of three hundred meters and someone falls, it will be very difficult to go look for him. So going to hell requires a master. And a total love for the other. In this society we do believe in the outcome of production, a pen, a car, a performance, appearance, comfort, the best car for the best boss, and we forget the environment. One goes outward to meet one's pride, our desires, our attraction to material goods, and still more and more. In spirituality it is increasingly less and less. It seems simple that is why it is so difficult.

Enough for today. Thank you for coming with this weather, this rain. In my time with my master at Shahjahanpur, it was raining forever. I slept in the water without feeling uncomfortable or unfortunate, and I slept well because I thought of my master. Here one must have thick mattresses, and one of your most beautiful stories is that of the princess and the pea. With a pea under her 7 mattress she could not sleep. What will happen when they sleep with a husband who taps her with his knees and elbows in his sleep, and bad breath. I do not know how European women sleep with their husbands because most have bad breath. I'm afraid when people come and talk to me, I turn my head, I tell the truth.

The attachment is in the head, love is in the surrounding. I like this tree but I'm not going to cut it and bring it to Madras. My knowledge of the material world tells me that if it is a living thing, I must not take it. I can not take but dead things. I can take a stick, but not a dog or a songbird, it does not sing in a cage. We must behave as if we were dead to this world. The world belongs to God, not to us. If you remember that, you will not harm nature. Guy has a gardener for 300 euros per month. to take care of his garden. But this world can take care of itself. I read a book by a German philosopher. And on the first page there are 4 lines, the name of the highest mountain (he names a place), all men can take in a suitcae of a square kilometre, the suitcase is placed on top of the mountain, and made to grow (is planted), and the valley grass turns green forever. Nature can take care of itself. Nature takes care of us. In the vedas, there are poems, may all things prosper, grass, birds, flowers, jungle, and this is the first verse that has been on the ecology of nature, and that applies to our life. We suffer because our rivers and oceans are polluted, the air is polluted, by whom? Westerners.

A: China and India are contributing a lot.

C: Not only the smoke. The largest air pollutant are the sprays, aerosols. And every year there are resolutions to stop them, but always stop them in a few years, they always push back the
dates, now they say they will stop in 2010 but in 2009 they will say 2050. The sole purpose is to make the money they give to politicians, politicians give the voters. We don't want to kill more whales but Japan continues and sends the entire world walking. Why does America not fire on the boats of the whaling fishermen? They go well into Afghanistan, Iraq, only because they want oil. Their policy is only based on their interest. Why is Europe united with it?

A: To be stronger

C: To be stronger militarily and politically. That is why many countries lack confidence. This is not for freedom or equality, it is for personal interest. People continue to hate. Denmark has kept its currency, England too. It is with such people, one likes the lips of the girl one will kiss, and the other, he loves her nose. In films you see a perfect girl, and boys want a girl like that. In reality, legs belong to another girl and it is a (special effects) production. Every part of the girl is from a different girl. This is not at all reality. We live a life filled with physical material wealth, beautiful lamps, nice curtains, mattresses, and the surrounding... nothing, no sleep, one takes more and more pills. Maybe in 20 years a businessman will buy this house and destroy the garden. The trees took 350 years to grow and everything can be cut to 35 minutes.

And nobody will say that these trees were beautiful because they will sell everything for apartments, and earn 30 million euros. How important are these trees. The West must give up this life and this material attachments, because you can lead a comfortable life but the attachment must leave.


A: How to get there?

C: It's very easy. First stop asking how things are called. What is it? A pancake. Oh a pancake,very impressive. What is this pizza? Mushrooms. Snails, Frogs. One starts loving the name and not the thing. A man tastes the wine and decides the price. From Beaujolais, 60 euros a bottle, rum 27 euros a bottle, is always alcohol. From beaujolais of 1967, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh 3000 euros the bottle. Someone won in an auction one of the older wines for $ 2 million. I do not know if they drank it or if they have kept for 2000 years or for resale. The things of value are never used. Recently they sold a diamond at auction at Christies to the highest price ever paid for a diamond. One day I wanted to go as Vivekananda on a trek on foot for a month by myself. I told it to Babuji, I want to take 5 rupees and leave for one month, he mocked me... take the train. Babuji cut this desire. I never left, I was afraid.

A: And the commitment vis-à-vis the people?

C: Babuji said there was no love between people. There is only dependence, friendship, commitment. Nothing else. Saying that one loves his wife is a lie. If you loved your wives there would be no divorces. You can not teach people to love. We can teach them how to make love but it should be natural. One day I had a long discussion with a married couple from a religion I do not want to name, and the man asked me what my teacher said that is not already in the book of his religion. I asked what his book talked about. He said everything about life, including how to make love. I said sir, you need a prophet for that. He blushed. The philosophy is in the books, not in life. There are so many philosophers who have become insane. In the East it is not possible that a philosopher becomes insane. Because a Master can not commit suicide or become insane.


A: When will you go to Africa?

C: Why do you want me to go to Africa. I work according to the orders I receive from my master If he goes to France I come here. If he says why you spend three days eating well with Guy, I'm finished.

I was with Babuji in Rome, at the Vatican and the former pope was there. An old man very sick, very tired, he blessed the people in three languages, and finally he said something that made many people angry, he said he will offer a special prayer for people who have AIDS.

I was angry, I said why AIDS? Why not diabetes or legs broken, and not AIDS which is a disease that should not be accepted nor tolerated in any way. Many abhyasis told me that I have no heart when I say that. I said too bad I have no heart because if I had a heart I could not work. At the beginning of my spiritual life, I gave my heart to my master. And now I can only work with my head.

If he says no sitting I did no sitting, I must obey orders, you know. When I told Babuji what was in the pope's prayer he was also surprised. The religious leaders can pray for a specific group. In India our prayer is "may all be happy and healthy everywhere." One prays not for whites, African, Chinese… this is not like that. May all be happy people everywhere.

Thank you brothers and sisters


Traduction PROVISOIRE des échanges informels
entre Chariji et des abhyasis
Le 01/06/2008 chez Guy Joris

Abhyasi: Master comment jouer du violon sans émotion ?

Chari : Restez dans le souvenir constant, pensez au Maître. Il suffit de le faire, sans se préoccuper des notes et des effets. La musique européenne est trop stricte, elle manque de liberté, se préoccupe trop des effets, ce n'est pas de la musique, mais plutôt de la comédie.

Liberté, liberté, on ne peut pas applaudir quand on a envie d'applaudir,
tout est calculé.

A : Qu'en est il de mon projet de mélanger les styles de musiques.

C : Ne mélangez pas, laissez le coeur jouer. On ne devrait pas écrire la musique, c'est la première erreur.

A : Et si on prend des instruments d'orient pour jouer une musique

C : Vous allez gâcher la musique orientale. Chez nos flûtistes seul le squelette est là. Le squelette, et au dessus Dieu crée les gens, Jacky, cette fille, cette femme. Donc le squelette doit être là mais qu'est ce que vous avez, un morceau d'opéra, du Schuman, et le chef d'orchestre est important, mais qu'est ce qu'il fait en réalité, dites moi.

A : Pas grand-chose

C : Rien du tout. On n'a pas besoin de lui du tout. Et en plus il gagne plus d'argent que tout le monde. C'est de la comédie. La même musique composée par le même homme, avec deux chefs d'orchestres différents, l'un vend plus que l'autre, je ne sais pas. Guy est un bon musicien. Je
lui ai demandé quelle est la différence. Il a dit : mais Chariji celui-ci est tel chef d'orchestre. merveilleux merveilleux. Mon opinion est personnelle.

A : Mais vous dites que pour conduire un satsangh, on a besoin d'un chef d'orchestre

C : Ne voyez vous pas la différence ? .

C'est pour ça que je n'écoute pas de musique classique. Avant j'aimais ça mais c'est toujours la même chose. Je peux écouter un raga 50 fois et il est toujours différent. Un raga a une base mais c'est tout, pas de chef d'orchestre, C'est pour ça que le jazz n'est pas très populaire vous voyez, car avec le jazz on oublie les gens qui regardent, alors pourquoi pas la même chose avec l'opéra.

A : Parlez moi d'une musique qui élève l'âme.

C : Certaines musiques indiennes, ou pour les allemands, certains morceaux de Mozart. La musique doit venir de l'âme. Il y a la soi disant musique soufie on l'écoute et on s'endort. On ne sait pas ce que c'est que l'âme et on ne sait pas ce qu'est une musique qui vient de l'âme.

Que ce soit soufi ne signifie rien. Je peux faire hurler mon chien etles autres chiens penseront que c'est de la musique. Donc la musique n'est même pas un sujet dont on peut parler avec des occidentaux.

J'exprime des opinions très fortes quand je parle avec les abhyasis. Et même vos danses vous savez, elles ne sont pas naturelles.

A : On met des règles et des mathématiques partout.

C : Oui partout, beaucoup trop. Et pas assez d'âme, même en méditation. La nuit dernière je réfléchissais aux difficultés des occidentaux et aux facilités des orientaux. Je suis arrivé à une conclusion basée sur mes réflexions, dans le monde occidental vous avez des maîtres dans les
arts, l'artisanat, l'ingénierie, etc. toutes les choses externes. Vous avez des maîtres de tout, l'électricité, la plomberie, la musique, la cuisine. Elle est un cordon bleu. Vous ne vous rendez pas compte de l'importance des choses les unes par rapport aux autres. Est ce que la nourriture est si importante qu'un grand cuisinier est payé 20 000 euros par mois, c'est un non sens. A coté un scientifique ne sera payé que 10 000 euros par mois. Est-ce que ça montre l'importance réelle de chaque chose ? Schumacher, numéro 1, quel est son revenu, des millions de dollars par an. Il est comme un chien qui court en cercle derrière une chienne sans jamais arriver à la toucher. Et les joueurs de tennis, ils gagnent 10, 15, 20 millions, pourquoi ? Bien sur le tennis est
important, c'est bon pour le corps mais c'est tout. Dans le monde extérieur, il n'y a pas de relation entre ce qui est important et ce qui ne l'est pas vraiment, et en plus vous mélangez ce qui est vraiment important et ce qui est apparemment important, vous payez un joueur de tennis 30 millions et un professeur de science 3000 dollars. Et une bonne cuisinière parce que elle sait faire une sauce, bismillah, vraiment qu'est ce qu'une sauce, du chutney en Inde, on devrait payer
pour le chutney, pas pour la cuisinière. Donc vous voyez, tout est inversé en Europe et en occident. Vous avez trop de maîtres. En orient on ne s'occupe pas du monde extérieur, assez d'imbéciles le font pour nous. On va à l'intérieur, on est allés à l'intérieur toute notre vie
depuis des centaines d'années. C'est un monde très difficile. Ici on peut devenir un ingénieur, un banquier si on a l'éducation, mais peut être qu'il ne connaît pas la différence entre 10 euros et 1 euro car il utilise un ordinateur pour ça. Dans un milliard il y a combien de zéro ? 6. Mais ici on va calculer 1 puissance 3 égal 10 puissance 4, oh non est ce 6 ou 9 ? Donc en orient on a très peu de maîtres. Le monde intérieur n'est pas tangible, on ne peut pas le sentir. Vous avez trop de maîtres sur trop de sujets, y compris le tennis, le football. En orient il y a
seulement un sujet, mais c'est un sujet non seulement très difficile à comprendre mais aussi infini. Ici vous fabriquez une radio et vous faites quoi avec, vous l'écoutez, et c'est fini. Dans le monde intérieur il n'y a pas de fin, le maître continu et continu. Dans l'esprit occidental, vous avez l'habitude de commencer quelque chose et de le terminer, le début et la fin, lundi à vendredi, puis les vacances, en spiritualité il n'y a pas de vacances c'est toujours et tous les jours. Il n'y a pas de fin. D'où le livre de Babuji, vers l'infini.

A : Mais vous pensez que la mission augmente en Europe

C : Oui elle augmente parce que les gens capables de comprendre sont plus nombreux. Dans le monde matériel c'est facile. Mais dans le monde matériel aussi quand on va vers le plus petit, c'est infini, il y a les molécules, puis les atomes, les nucleus, les particules. Pour les trouver on a besoin de plus en plus grandes machines. Donc pour le moins on a besoin du plus. A l'intérieur pour obtenir plus, on a besoin de moins. De quoi a-t-on besoin, on doit éliminer toute notre attention extérieure sur les filles, la nourriture, Dieu. et tout réduire pour arriver à une seule attention, l'intérieur, et voilà. Donc vous voyez il y a trop de maîtres du monde extérieur, tout y est tangible, peut être touché, senti. Dans le monde spirituel, c'est toujours moins, et moins, et moins. On ne sait pas combien on progresse, où on commence et où on finit.

A : C'est difficile de vous suivre car on doit vivre dans ce monde et y gagner de l'argent

C : Non non ce n'est pas difficile pour vous, c'est difficile pour moi. Vous venez vous méditez et vous dites Chari ne sert à rien, depuis 20 ans qu'il vient je n'ai pas changé. .Mais ce n'est pas ma faute, est ce que c'est ma faute ?

C'est votre faute car vous gaspillez toute votre énergie à faire de la musique. Je ne jouerai peut être pas aussi bien que vous mais en trois jours je peux jouer quelque chose. Qu'est ce que vous pouvez faire en méditation ? Vous n'êtes capables que de maîtriser le monde extérieur, et vous ne savez pas quoi faire avec votre monde intérieur. Vous ne voulez pas obéir au maître, vous dites que vous êtes libres, la France est le pays de la liberté, égalité, fraternité. La liberté de faire ce qui est mauvais, de ne pas être disciplinés, de se marier de nombreuses fois, d'avoir beaucoup d'aventures sentimentales. Et quelle égalité, vous avez tuée une reine car elle était née comme ça, vous l'avez assassinée, et vous en faites une célébration annuelle avec le 14 juillet. La fierté des français, voilà votre liberté, égalité, fraternité. Et pauvre Marie Antoinette, tuée. C'est votre idée de l'égalité et de la fraternité. Et la fraternité existe quand il y a du vin à boire et que vous êtes souls. Vous ne pouvez pas avoir cette sorte de liberté égalité et fraternité en spiritualité. En spiritualité il y a seulement une seule égalité, l'âme. Elle est toujours la même et elle est immortelle, éternelle, et chaque âme est égale à une autre. Mais vous voulez l'égalité physique.

La liberté de l'âme est éternelle. Mon âme est emprisonnée dans mon corps et ce corps a 5 sens, il veut embrasser, toucher, faire tellement de choses, manger ; boire. Et la liberté des français leur dit qu'ils peuvent boire, Chari. Ok buvez exercez votre liberté et vous allez venir et revenir et revenir, jusqu'à ce que vous compreniez que ce n'est pas une vraie liberté. Ce sont vos désirs qui vous font revenir ce n'est pas Dieu. Il y avait un corps enterré dans un jardin en Malaisie, et tous les samedis on mettait dans la tombe 6 bouteilles de bière au cas où le fantôme serait venu et aurait voulu boire. Tant d'attachements. C'est une histoire vraie. Et si ils ne le faisaient pas il y avait des problèmes à la maison, les fenêtres battaient, les choses se renversaient. Que faire, il y a tellement d'attachements que même sans un corps pour en profiter, il y a des désirs. Trop de désirs passent du corps dans l'âme, ou plutôt dans le fantôme qui reste dans le coin à chercher des pizzas ou autre chose. Et même si le corps est mort, le fantôme continue à vouloir de la pizza. Et il frappe à toutes les pizzerias qui ferment leurs portes à doubles tours Enfin un prêtre vient, et si le prêtre est capable ça marche.

Babuji disait choisissez un maître qui connaît son travail et quand vous le trouvez, attachez vous à lui car vous êtes l'idiot qui risque de laisser tout tomber, ce n'est pas le maître qui vous laissera tomber.

A : Alors si je suis vraiment centré, rien dans ma vie ne va me toucher?

C : Rien. C'est la différence entre l'orient et l'occident. Ici il y a trop de maîtres. Une personne a fait un cours de 3 jours pour apprendre le raiki et elle vient me voir pour essayer de me guérir. Elle veut me guérir avec un cours de trois jours. Vous avez des cours de quelques jours ou quelques semaines. Quand j'étais un garçon, je voulais faire du yoga. On ne m'a pas laissé entrer car toutes les filles étaient en collant et c'était hors de prix. Mais je savais instinctivement que je
devais faire quelque chose en rapport avec le yoga. Pour devenir capable de vraiment réussir à méditer, oubliez vos idées occidentales sur les capacités, les diplômes, les maîtres. Vous ne serez pas un maître charpentier, mais un maître qui était avant aussi un charpentier.

Mais vous allez me faire croire qu'un maître charpentier est aussi un maître en méditation ? On peut tout assurer mais on ne peut pas assurer le cerveau d'un homme brillant. On ne peut pas assurer la spiritualité d'un homme. Quand vous allez à Paris, il y a tellement de rues et
d'avenues nommées d'après les généraux de Napoléon. Vous glorifiez la guerre. Où sont les vieux philosophes, je ne sais pas si ils existent, ou alors ils nomment un stade de sport quelque part.

Donc en spiritualité il faut se débarrasser de tout. Voilà ce que je devais vous dire aujourd'hui, toutes ces pensées que j'ai. Pourquoi l'est et l'ouest sont si différents ? La différence est dans le cour, pas dans le cerveau. La même âme, le même cour, on ne doit pas avoir un cour oriental ou occidental, mais un cour aimant. Pourquoi l'est et l'ouest ne se rejoignent ils pas ?

A : Samskaras ?

C : Non c'est comme de dire pourquoi il est noir ou il est blanc, samskaras, ce n'est pas ça. C'est la qualité du cour. On fabrique chacun notre univers qui est un univers de fantaisie, et on y vit et y est heureux. Il y a un film très beau sur une femme qui emmène ses deux enfants à l'école, et tout le monde meurt. Le mari va en enfer pour en ramener sa famille. Et il trouve sa femme vivant heureuse dans une belle maison au fond de l'enfer et il a le plus grand mal à l'en faire repartir. Ca c'est l'amour. Babuji disait qu'on a tellement a apprendre sur les qualités de la vie mais un moment il faut aller au fond de l'enfer pour pouvoir en ressortir. Si un homme monte sur un arbre et ne peut pas redescendre, il peut sauter. Mais si il y a un précipice de
trois cent mètres et quelqu'un tombe, ce sera très difficile d'aller le chercher. Donc aller en enfer demande un maître. Et un amour total pour l'autre. Dans cette société on ne pense qu'au résultat de sa production, un stylo, une auto, une performance, l'apparence, le confort, la meilleure voiture pour le meilleur patron, et on oublie le cour. On va vers l'extérieur pour satisfaire note fierté, nos désirs, notre attraction pour les biens matériels, toujours plus et toujours plus. En spiritualité c'est toujours plus de moins et de moins.

Ca parait simple c'est pourquoi c'est si difficile.

Ca suffit pour aujourd'hui. Merci d'être venus avec ce mauvais temps, cette pluie. A mon époque avec mon maître à Shahjahanpur, il pleuvait toujours. Je dormais dans l'eau sans me sentir inconfortable ni malheureux, et je dormais bien car je pensais à mon maître Ici il faut des matelas épais, et une de vos plus belles histoires est celle de la princesse au petit pois. Avec un petit pois sous 7 matelas elle ne pouvait pas dormir. Qu'est ce qui va se passer quand elle dormira avec un mari qui la tape de ses genoux et coudes dans son sommeil, et a mauvaise haleine. Je ne sais pas comment les femmes européennes dorment avec leurs maris car la plupart ont mauvaise haleine. J'ai peur quand les gens viennent me parler, je tourne la tête, je dis la vérité. L'attachement est dans la tête, l'amour est dans le cour. J'aime cet arbre mais je ne vais pas le couper et l'apporter à Madras. Ma connaissance du monde matériel me dit que si c'est une chose vivante, je
ne dois pas le prendre. Je ne peux prendre que des choses mortes. Je peux prendre un bâton, mais pas un chien ou un oiseau qui chante, il ne chantera pas dans une cage. On doit se conduire comme si on était mort pour ce monde. Ce monde appartient à Dieu, pas à nous. Si vous vous
souvenez de ça vous ne ferez pas de mal à la nature. Guy a un jardinier pour 300 euros par mois pour s'occuper de son jardin. Mais ce monde peut prendre soin de lui-même. J'ai lu un livre d'un philosophe allemand. Et sur la première page il y a 4 lignes, le nom de la plus haute montagne de (il nomme un endroit), tous les hommes peuvent tenir dans une valise d'un kilomètre carré, la valise est mise en haut de la montagne, on la pousse, et l'herbe de la vallée devient verte pour toujours. La nature peut prendre soin d'elle-même. La nature prend soin de nous. Dans les védas, il y a des poèmes, puisse toute chose prospérer, l'herbe, les oiseaux, les fleurs, la jungle, et c'est le premier vers que l'on a sur l'écologie de la nature, et cela s'applique à notre vie. On souffre car nos rivières et nos océans sont pollués, l'air est pollué, par qui ? Les occidentaux.

A : la Chine et l'Inde y contribuent beaucoup.

C : Non ce n'est que de la fumée. Le plus gros polluant de l'air sont les sprays, les aérosols. Et chaque année il y a des résolutions pour les stopper mais toujours dans quelques années, ils repoussent toujours les dates, maintenant ils disent qu'ils vont arrêter en 2010 mais en 2009 ils diront 2050. Le seul but est de faire de l'argent qu'ils donnent aux politiciens, les politiciens donnent aux voteurs. On ne veut plus tuer les baleines mais le Japon continue et envoie balader tout le monde. Pourquoi l'Amérique ne tire pas sur les bateaux pécheurs de baleines ? Ils vont bien en Afghanistan, en Irak, seulement parce qu'ils veulent le pétrole. Leur politique est seulement basée sur leur intérêt. Pourquoi l'Europe est elle unie ?

A : Pour être plus forts

C : Pour être plus forts militairement et politiquement. C'est pourquoi de nombreux pays n'ont pas confiance. Ce n'est pas pour la liberté ni l'égalité, c'est pour l'intérêt personnel. Les gens continuent à se détester. Le Danemark a gardé sa monnaie, l'Angleterre aussi. C'est pareil avec les gens, il aime les lèvres de cette fille qu'il va embrasser et l'autre aime son nez. Dans les films on voit une fille parfaite, et les garçons veulent une fille comme ça. En réalité les jambes appartiennent à une autre fille et c'est du montage. Chaque partie de la fille est d'une fille différente. Ce n'est pas du tout la réalité. On vit une vie matérielle remplie de richesses matérielles, une belle lampe, de beaux rideaux, des matelas, et dans le cour, rien, on ne
dort pas, on prend de plus en plus de pilules. Peut être que dans 20 ans un homme d'affaire achètera cette maison et détruira le jardin. Les arbres ont mis 350 ans à pousser et tout peut être coupé en 35 minutes.

Et personne ne dira que ces arbres étaient beaux car il vendra tout ça en appartements, et gagnera 30 millions d'euros. Quelle importance on ces arbres. L'occident doit abandonner sa vie matérielle et ses attachements, car on peut mener une vie agréable mais l'attachement doit partir.

A : Comment y arriver ?

C : C'est très facile. D'abord arrêtez de demandez comment s'appellent les choses. C'est quoi ? Une crêpe. Oh une crêpe, très impressionnant. Quelle pizza est ce ? Champignons. Escargots, Grenouilles. On se met à aimer le nom et non la chose. Un homme goûte le vin et décide du prix.

Du beaujolais, 60 euros la bouteille, rhum 27 euros la bouteille, c'est toujours de l'alcool. Du beaujolais de 1967, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh 3000 euros la bouteille. Quelqu'un a gagné dans une vente aux enchères un des vins les plus vieux pour 2 millions de dollars. Je ne sais pas si ils l'ont bu ou si ils l'ont gardé pour 2000 ans de plus ou pour le revendre. Les choses de valeur ne sont jamais utilisées. Récemment ils ont vendu aux enchères un diamant chez Christies au prix le plus élevé jamais payé pour un diamant. Un jour j'ai voulu aller comme Vivekananda faire une randonnée à pied pendant un mois seul. J'ai raconté ça à Babuji, je veux prendre 5 roupies et partir pour un mois, il s'est moqué de moi, prends le train. Babuji a coupé ce désir. Je ne suis jamais parti, j'ai
eu peur.

A: Et l'attachement vis-à-vis des gens ?

C : Babuji a dit qu'il n'y a pas d'amour entre les gens. Il y a seulement de la dépendance, de l'amitié, de l'attachement. Rien d'autre. Dire qu'on aime sa femme est un mensonge. Si vous aimiez vos femmes il n'y aurait pas de divorces. On ne peut pas apprendre aux gens à aimer.
On peut leur apprendre à faire l'amour mais ça devrait être naturel. Un jour j'ai eu une longue discussion avec un couple marié d'une religion que je ne veux pas nommer, et l'homme m'a demandé ce que mon maître dit qui n'est pas déjà dans le livre de sa religion. J'ai demandé de quoi parlait son livre. Il a dit tout, tout sur la vie, y compris comment faire l'amour. J'ai dit monsieur, vous avez besoin d'un prophète pour ça. Il a rougit. La philosophie est dans les livres, pas dans la vie. Il y a tellement de philosophes qui sont devenus fous. En orient ce n'est
pas possible qu'un philosophe devienne fou. Car un maître ne peut pas se suicider ni devenir fou.

A : Quand irez vous en Afrique ?

C : Pourquoi vous voulez que j'aille en Afrique. Je travaille en fonction des ordres que je reçois de mon maître Si il dit va en France je viens ici. Si il dit pourquoi passez vous trois jours à bien manger avec Guy, c'est fini je pars. J'étais avec Babuji à Rome, au Vatican et l'ancien pape était là. Un vieil homme très malade, très fatigué, il bénissait les gens en trois langues, et finalement il a dit quelque chose qui a mis beaucoup de gens en colère, il a dit qu'il va faire une
prière spéciale pour les gens qui ont le sida. J'étais en colère, j'ai dit pourquoi le sida ? Pourquoi pas le diabète ou les jambes cassées, et non le sida qui est une maladie qui ne devrait pas être acceptée ni tolérée d'aucune manière. Beaucoup d'abhyasis m'ont dit que je n'avais
pas de cour quand je dis ça. J'ai dit tant pis je n'ai pas de cour car si j'avais un cour je ne pourrais pas travailler. Au début de ma vie spirituelle j'ai donné mon cour à mon maître Et maintenant je peux seulement travailler avec ma tête. Si il dit pas de sitting je ne donne pas de sitting, je dois obéir aux ordres vous savez. Quand j'ai raconté à Babuji quelle était la prière du pape il était aussi surpris. Les leaders religieux peuvent prier pour un groupe spécifique. En Inde notre
prière est « puissent tous être heureux et en bonne santé partout ». On ne prie pas pour les blancs, les africains les chinois. ce n'est pas comme ça. Puissent tous les gens être heureux partout.

Merci mes frères et sours.

Monday, June 16, 2008

Autobiography of Ram Chandra

The Autobiography of Ram Chandra

Part I : early life, adult life, at the feet of the Master, Journal (1928 - 1932) - vol 1 1899-1932 (2nd Ed 1980 1500 copies)

Part II : Instructions et leçons spirituelles reçues de maîtres
- vol 1 : 1944 May/Sep (1st Ed 1987 3000 copies) - Preparation
- vol 2 : 1944 Oct - 1945 Mar (1st Ed 1988 3000 copies) - Declaration
- vol 3 : 1945 Apr - 1955 Jun (1st Ed 1989 2000 copies) - Contribution

The first part has been published while Babuji was still alive, but he opposed the publication of the second part. S.P. Srivastava decided to publish the second part after his death, in reaction to the version published by Chari and the SRCM (California).

All the Extracts have been chosen by Christian.

Part I, 1899-1932, SRCM Shahjahanpur, oct. 1980, 2nd edition

p1 "My father was Rai Bahadur Sri Badri Prasad, Honorary Special Magistrate I Class."

p13 "[Babuji meets his master Lalaji on the 3rd June 1922 for the first time. He adds:] After coming back from my Master, I continued the practice, but not so deeply as I had to appear in the Matric and SSLC examination."

p14 "[I] retired as Record Keeper in 1956. My Master, who served in the Collectorate of Fatehgarh, also retired as Record Keeper."

p36 - 5th April 1928 "Dreamt in the night that I visited the holy shrine of Prophet Mohammad in Mecca. There I felt vibration at a point above the Trikuti or Cavernous Plexus and also a force of the same kind which had its link with the head."

p56 - Comment added by Babuji to his journal entry of the 17th January 1929 : "The ego gives you strength for all the work. It points out to you that you have got the power to do a certain thing. But we identify ego with the body, instead of with the soul. It is the production of God which you cannot annihilate. You should modify it."

p73 - 15th August 1929 "There, a great Muslim divine was present along with another Saint and a personage. I did not recognize that personage. The great Muslim divine asked that personage to inspect my backbone. So my shirt was removed and the inspection was made. He seemed to be pleased with me. He remarked that the condition was very good, and there was some hint regarding the emotion of love which I bore for my Guru. He directed me to request the Mahatmaji Maharaj to pay special attention and to give special instruction to my humble self. I intimated Revered Lalaji Saheb accordingly. He also asked me to keep him informed regarding my condition. What he meant at that time seemed to me as if my humble self had been ordered by him to look towards him also."

p94 - Lalaji says to Babuji in a letter "The love, companionship and affection of your preceptor is to be considered enough."

p117 - 10th March 1930 "Dreamt in the night that I was escorting my elder aunt to Lucknow. (...) From there I reached Kanpur. (...) On the same night, my wife dreamt that I had come back from Kanpur, had been attacked by a cow, and that I was dead."

p123 - 26th March 1930 "Of its own accord the thought of Hazrat Mohammad dominated in the night, and the same thought continued when I woke up in the morning."

p126 "The condition of other people there comes to my knowledge through the letters of your preceptor. (...) Your preceptor probably becomes nervous. He should be consoled. He is tender-hearted. (...) Your well-wisher, RAM CHANDRA, (from Fatehgarh)"

p130 - 2nd April 1930 "Dreamt in the night that I was inside a house with you, and a great Muslim. Saint was seatted in the courtyard. I sat down to the left of the Saint and noticed that a hand was shaking hands with him. (...) Then putting my hand on his palm he initiated me, and received two couplets which probably contained promise and commitment. The couplets were in Persian. (...) When I woke up, I felt that the hand which had been having a hand-shake with the great divine was that of Prophet Muhammad."

p131 - 6th April 1930 (dream) "The Preceptor, Pandit Rameshwar Prasad, and my maternal uncle were present there."

p159 Letter to the Master with diary for September 1930 "(...) This life of feelings has ended. Now there is neither meditation nor revelation."

13th December 1930 "At Fatehgarh I dreamt at about 4 in the morning that a Saint was sitting in my carriage and, without saying anything, he initiated me. Then he recited same Arabic verses and embraced me. (...)"

17th December 1930 "Dreamt in the night that I went to Mecca. (...) I moved forward to the place where the shrine of Hazrat Mohammad is located. The shrine was totally red in colour. The grave assumed the shape of Hazrat Mohammad, and it seemed as if he was reclining. Smiling he remarked that my condition was very subtle and he blessed me to attain betterment (...)."

p172 Letter from Lalaji to a preceptor (pp170-173) "(...) Brother Ram Chandra undoubtedly has ability and agility in this respect, but I am sorry that due to the restrictions, of his father, norrowness of heart and space, and intricacies of his home my sagacity did not permit me for the time being to throw the responsability on him."

p. 171-172 "(...) Circumstances and the pressure of exigencies do not permit me to act according to my wish. I will write whatever I can. It is enough if it is useful and beneficial, even though it is scanty. A hint suffices for the intelligent. (...)"

"So on my own behalf and on that of my elders I invite the attention of brother Pandit Rameshwar Prasad to agree to take up this work in hand during your absence. May God give him courage and perseverence. That dear one will, perhaps, establish a condition of honour after casting off that small ortion of boyhood which is very negligible in him now, due to the demands of his age. May God help him. Brother Ram Chandra undoubtedly has ability and agility in this respect, but I am sorry that due to the restrictions, of his father, norrowness of heart and space, and intricacies of his home my sagacity did not permit me for the time being to throw the responsability on him. I hope from God that he will be benefited in a way better than the present one."

p191 - 18th February 1931 "(...) A voice from inside my heart told me that the man was telling me a lie since Hazrat Baqi Billah was giving transmission to me. (...)"

p208 - 21st April 1931 "Dreamt in the night that you [Lalaji] and a Muslim saint were present at my house. You beckoned me to sit in meditation with the saint. So meditation was started.

After same time I offered meals to the saint and I also partook of it with him. My mother was witnessing this. I withdrew my hand from the food so that she might not think that I had become converted."

p219 - 26th July 1931 "Dreamt that I went into meditation, and was at the shrine of a Saint Hazrat Baqi Billah (...)."

5th December 1931 p 229 "Dreamt in the night that a Saint was with me and the Great Muslim Divine picked me up on his lap and began to take of my shoes to seat me on his shoulders. (...)"

p 238 "The things went on. They grew subtler and subtler, and almost indescribable. Every subtle state was waiting for a yet subtler one. (...) By the method of the Master I found new life everyday. I do not know whether "life" will be an exact exposition of my condition. So the diary remained silent for years together."

p 239 "The death means the oblivious state of mind which rejects all that is there".

p 240 "After peace is Reality, so loving and embracing. We start with the cradle and rest in the grave. That is the whole life picture of the human life."

The Autobiography of Ram Chandra – Part II

Publisher's note

"The sons of Babuji are: Shri Umesh Chandra Saksena, Shri Sarvesh Chandra Saksena, Shri Prakash Chandra Saksena"

Editorial note

"The first entry in this second part of Revered Babuji's Autobiography is on 10-5-1944. This is preceded by a printed pamphlet or appeal in Urdu, in the name of ‘a servant of Revered Lalaji Saheb, belonging to Shahjahanpur’, and was issued by Shri Madan Mohan Lal, who was the recognized preceptor of the system of Yogic training at Shahjahanpur, as propounded by and practised under the guidance of the Grand Master, and His real brother Shri Raghubar Dayal Ji of Kanpur, known as Chachaji or respected uncle."

p. ii "The diary was submitted occasionally (generally once a month) with a short or long covering letter to Grand Master. There was only half a dozen letters (including one to the old preceptor Shri Madan Mohan Lal of Shahjahanpur) in reply from the Grand Master - the first dated 21-11-1929 (...) and the last rather long one dated 10-3-1931, five month before His physical veiling on 14/15-8-1931."

p. iii "The main feature of this diary is a continuous chain of instructions and lessons from the physically departed Grand Master to provide initiative and direction, enough to end the hesitation and prepare to start the work in continuation of the tradition of the Grand Master's real job, as against the backdrop of the proliferating misguided efforts by several other persons in accordance with their own egoistic self-seeking motivations. After about five month of this initial preparatory period, Babuji starts receiving communications and instructions from many other Masters of yore of highest calibre; and work is started under the sole guidance of the departed Grand Master, laying down the foundations in accordance with the requirements of the present age and time, but in keeping with the basic tenets and subject matter of the heary tradition of Yogic Science developped through the ages."

p. iv "Thereafter follows the description of the work of about ten years by way of the establishment of the organization known as Shri Ram Chandra Mission, Shahjahanpur; development of the system of Yogic Science (theory) and discipline (practice), designated as Sahaj Marg; and a huge amount of rather mystical work of Nature, about which only sketchy hints are available occacionally."

pp. v-vi "His discovery of Mind region and Central region beyond Heart region (...) is epoch-making. His emphasis on the task and job of the teacher (Guru) as helper and servant of his pupil like a mother and much more; and the perfectioning of the technique of "transmission" for wide efficient use (...)."

p. vi "The present series of volumes (...) brings forth one more very significant (...) contribution of the Master, viz. intercommunication with the physically departed capable Master, as the most essential condition and sign of somebody's capability and credential for carrying ahead the torch of spiritual training, in the real sense."

"Nobody during the Master's life-time was more conscious than He that it may all be a construction of a self-deluding prolific imagination; and He hesitated for almost fourteen years to start His work (...)."

pp. ix-x "This story of eleven years (...), which may be read and enjoyed by some as a mythical lore in due course of time, has nevertheless the quality of a baffling profoundness for the wise that may care to seek."

p. x "The reality and dream must play a sort of the game of hide and seek, in the life & character, under narration, ever available for the grasp yet always eluding the grip of every common man, as it must have been for the author as well."

pp. x-xi "With passage of time fact and fiction get mixed up (...). This has a tendency to degrade the value of a biography, as an instrument of education in the proper sense, for posterity."

pp. xii-xiii "The circumstances concerning the publication of this second part of Revered Shri Babuji's Autobiography have caused some heavy feeling to me personally. He felt reluctant to bring out many things contained in these diaries into the open for the knowledge of everybody; and spoke to certain people (but not to me) that it would be published after His physical veiling."

pp. xiii-xiv "When I went to Shahjahanpur for a meeting of the Publication committee of S. R. C. Mission, at the end of June, 1982, Revered Babuji told me that He had cursorily looked into the [English] translation [original diaries in Urdu], submitted to Him, and decided that it was not to be published unless I approved it after going thoroughly through it. In the meeting also, brothers Sarnad and Raizada informed me of Revered Master's decision, desiring me to do the needful as early as possible. I told them that I would need time to go through it thoroughly.

Then Revered Shri Babuji went to and returned from Paris; and passed out of His physical existence after a prolonged illness of about eight months.

Thereafter I obtained a copy of that translation from brother J. R. K. Raizada, Secretary to the President, and Superintendent of the Publication Department, of S. R. C. Mission, Shahjahanpur, at the time; and went through it during my first visit to Europe (September-October, 1983). On return to India, I requested the family of Revered Master to make the Urdu manuscript accessible to me, to which request they acceded. On going through the diaries in the original, the translation appeared to me very inadequate and rather jejune.

Perhaps, it was prepared for publication during the life-time of the author, omitting such contents as were considered unsuitable to be brought to light for one or the other reason. To me personally, however, it appeared unjust and unreasonable to drop out about eighty percent of the material, even as a posthumous publication. Some aspects which were rather mystical or capable of arousing some controversies, may probably be held back. When, however, the translation under reference was published from Madras, without making any reference to me, in contravention of the express instructions of Revered Shri Babuji after having a cursory glance through that translation, I was left with no choice or judgement of my own to drop out some portions in my new translation of the text of the manuscript. I felt somewhat disinclined to the point of even disgust at the developping circumstances. However, there cannot be two opinions or attitudes for me in the matter of attachment or discharge of responsability to Revered Shri Babuji. (...) In consequence, the manuscript of the diaries is coming to be translated and published, as it is, without curtailment, except where expressly prohibited, with occasional notes and explanation, in case of need to make the meaning clear. The publication of the entire text is bound to take its own time (...).”

p. xvi. "Part Two of the Autobiography of Revered Shri Babuji starts about a little less (a few months) than thirteen years after the physical passing away of Shri Babuji's spiritual guide and Master (...). During this period of about thirteen years inner training for the work ahead, as well as some work in a sort of dormant oblivious state went on. In the first place Shri Babuji's intercommunication with His Master beyond material limitations continued, even though its open external expression remained suspended for certain practical considerations. Some persons, physically and socially close to Revered Lalaji, had claimed to be His representative and successor, and they were trying somewhat deliberately to harm and even do away with the physical existence of Grand Master's real representative in every possible way, including the use of certain spiritual techniques. Some other quite well advanced disciples of the Grand Master, being averse to the false claims due to obvious lack of real effect, had started setting up organisations more or less in allegiance to the Grand Master, but centred mainly around these so-called advanced disciples as visible personalities to guide the multitudes attached to them on the age-old path of spirituality, as brought to them by the Grand Master, who had passed out of physical existence on August 14/15 (midnight), 1931. The visible work of Revered Babuji started taking concrete shape in the summer season of 1944."

Part II, Vol. 1 (1944 May/Sep)

pp. 7-8 18 May 1944 "When you have given your heart to someone, you have to receive that person's benedictory or accursed gifts to you."

"About you, he had the hint that there was possibility of you clash with him sometime. He did not like you coming to me. When all other means were unsuccessful, prayers were offered to your Revered Grand Master that you may be kept devoid of spiritual progress. This was very much disliked by Him and this became the cause of His displeasure. An attempt was made for cancellation of your initiation; and stories were narrated to you. Action against him had to be taken in accordance with the permission of the Grand Master. Do go to His Samadhi, when conveninent. (...) You were induced through thought to sexual indulgence. Where there was no success by any means, images of naked women were thrust into your heart. (...) A woman and you were taken in thought, as copulating, so that you commit such act. This was his last attempt to degrade you. (...) He tried so much to pull you down, and it never occurred to his mind that God's will alone triumphs ultimately. The matters have been brought to your knowledge, so that you may not be moved to feel mercy."

pp. 9-10 19th May 1944 "I shall feel relief when you shall take over the responsability.(...) When your diary was put forth for publication, your name was excluded from it. (...) They were apprehensive that people may become inclined to you, and they may lose their source of livelihood."

"I kept you concealed in my heart, and did not let anybody suspect it. Only R got and has the idea, because he was connected to my state (...). I had consideration for his poverty, and hence structured a status for him. So he started living like a man of status. Greed was increased and God was totally forgotten. (...) At R's place money was wasted for pleasure and luxury. (...) There was no consideration for the poor. Rich people were given consideration."
"Have consideration for my old age."

p12 20th May 1944 "Somebody may shower thousands of abuse on you, but you have to tolerate that. This means that if someone abuses you, you can also abuse in return, and even hit back and strike, but never wish anything ill for that person from your heart (...) If occasion demands, there is no harm even in having an armed conflict. (...) To give protection to an innocent victim of tyrany is duty. You have to take out the sword at the hour of need, even then there is nothing wrong."

pp. 14-18 22nd May 1944 "They are trying to upset your mind." "You considered even theft and robbery for me as right." "possibly, M may come to you, even though there is little hope for this. Do not pardon him, only avoid doing anything, in such eventuality."
"Shahjahanpur will be the Centre. Light will be reaching everybody from here." "You are still so young. You have achieved at such a young age what could not be the lot of so many great and high personalities." "The powers of ennemies are weakened. Now they can do no harm to you." "I am merged in you, and hence remain dependent on Him [Lalaji's Master] alone in every matter. He loves you."

22 May 1944 p.18 "My Revered Master was the best example of courage. Now I am getting aside; and He Himself will instruct you. I have obtained His promise from Him. Now treat Him as all in all. He alone shall help you. I am merged in you; and hence remain dependent on Him alone in every matter. He loves you. The recommandation for your training came first from Him; and this had come during my life-time itself."

"The Great Grand Master arrived and said: "I have spoken to A1. I have made you fully perfect. Your Master's name will shine thought you. People will be wondering. He then went away."

p20 "There is no harm in giving benefit to him. But do not commit mistakes like me in bestowing power. Power shall remain only in one; benefit will go to everybody."

p21 "The intense feeling that was pumped into him (R2) was designed to make R2 smear his hands with you blood; but I took care not to let this come to happen. The anointment has been performed by drawing out blood from your body, so that the anointed person (R2) may assassinate the same person, whose blood has been used for anointment. For this job, R2 appeared the fittest tool for them."

p22 "When you stayed at K.., M3 intended to administer poison to you; but I was not allowing this thought to be fixed in his mind."

"One day something was even administered to you in your meal. The purpose was to cause upsetting of your mind; but I digested it totally. You were feeling only nausea and vertigo. The drug was mixed with potatoes."

"One (chief) purpose of administering this drug, referred to the fact that you were never without my remembrance. So this drug was used to force your mind to give up adsorption in my remembrance to allow him (N1) to snatch away (your spiritual condition and capacity)."

25th May 1944 p22 "Revelation converging the vision revealed to R2 January 15, 1943 at 8 pm when he saw two fingers in meditational state (...): "That was meant to reveal to him that there were to be two personalities, viz. Babu Ram Chandra and Madan Mohan Lala."

30th May 1944 p26 "Start the organization. Begin attracting people to yourself."

31th May 1944 p28 "You can use that particular weapon in cleaning but not in transmission."

1st June 1944 p28 "R2 was attempted to be developped as your assassin."

3rd June 1944 p28 "Instructions concerning organization (...)"

4th June 1944 p30 "I was dying, and B1 was busy with his own ambitions. He was busy with thoughts about his representationship. (...) If I had left money behind, who knows what may be happening."

5th June 1944 pp31-32 "I have made your body my home."
"Your body is my body. I am working through your body, sitting all the time in it. A person with body is needed. Great personalities incarnate themselves like this; and incarnations themselves manifest in a body."

"Today you are suffering much pain; so I have also stopped working."

p. 32 "A person with body is needed. Great personalities incarnate themselves like this; and incarnations themselves manifest in a body. I have merged in you with my entire powers, and am unravelling them by and by."

6th June 1944 p33 "You do not need to go to anybody for satsang. I do not like that the particles of transmission from other persons affect you."

p35 "I shall become free after your physical passing away; and the whole responsability shall pass onto you. This chain shall go on continuously. Nature makes and uses only one as Her instrument."

8th June 1944 p.37 "You are the Lord of the European countries."

17th June 1944 p.39 "My Master is the example of direct love to God, which occurred after a lot of progress in spirituality. I myself am the example of love to the medium (Master). Those who are inclined to monistic way of worship primarily find direct love to God suited for their disposition, while those who remain dependent on a mutual base, develop a nature of taking a concrete base, rooted deeply in every fibre and vein of their entire being. These latter derive benefit through the medium (Master) only. You give the method as you find the inclination in a person."

28th June 1944 p.41 - (talking about M1) "He should give up the style of a teacher of Muslim theology."

p.42 "The death of B5 has done away with the possibility of my ill-reputation. You have committed a mistake by writting in the letter about peace to the soul of B5. He is an object of my anger."

p. 46 "The first form of self-forgetfulness (loosing oneself) is called 'heart-resolution'. This is the condition of freedom from the heaviness."

"The capacity for exercise of discriminative intelligence is enhanced when 'purification of the lower self' is achieved."

p. 47 "People prevailed upon me to get myself photographed. Now worship of photograph has started."

p. 52 "The preceptors possessing permissions commit mistakes in their enthusiasm, without applying their intelligence."

"Someone else works in the sphere of Satsang, as a sample of idiocy (viz. S2): People introduced by him will remain dull."

p. 52 "I do not want Toms, Dicks and Harrys, who are below the mark, to fill up our Association (Satsang)."

p. 53 "Persons below the mark should not be admitted."

p. 53 "If Master loves the disciple, then the Master is lover and the disciple is beloved; and if the disciple loves the Master, then he becomes lover and the Master is beloved. The relation is established in either case."

p. 55 "If courage and will is applied for a proper purpose, it is not to be called egoism."

p. 66 "Every representative has become a slave of his own will; and I have this complaint from everybody. If there is no head or supreme authority in a society, this defect creeps in."

p. 72 "One who strolls about the Brahmanda Mandal, having no approach any further, is called Brahmin. The higher status than that of these people, belongs to Maha Brahmin, whose limit of climbing is the Para Brahmanda Mandal. (...) In fact, both are in bondage. They cannot pull up anybody beyond their respective limits. This power belongs only to a saint, whose stage starts beyond that. He gets in touch with the air of the Real Being to a sufficient extent."

p. 80 "He should give up meat-eating. Permission for that can only be for you. (...) You have a lack of heat; so it may be useful to you."

p. 84 "Your nature has attained the sleeping state; I had, therefore, used the word 'inactive'. (...) God does not work. If you quieten your particles more, the same state will prevail; and this state for you, I want after your death."

p. 85 Intercommunication de Lalaji à Babuji : "The symptoms for the destruction of a group of people have developped. They have framed such tendencies as are taken them downwards. The other group is far better than these. Your third or fourth generation will be assigned just this work; but he will not be able to complete the work in his lifetime. Thereafter a Special Personality shall emerge and complete this work. Materialism will increase."

p. 86 "The Special Personality to come in future came to vision-bluish complexion, no beard, no moustache, healthy, stomach slightly bulging, short stature, dry-natured, no courtesies, preference for coarseness, having nothing to do with anything except bloodshed."

p. 91 "The degraded condition which has come to my society, would not have occurred anywhere else. I just wrench within. If matters continue like this, I will issue orders to you for total destruction."

"I should have structured my successor before giving permission to them. I now realize that mistake. I am withdrawing all permissions. (...) If somebody continues to impart training, that will mean, he is deceiving others. If he will still go on persisting, the result will be just reprehensible in the end. Remember, all of these arrangements by me are with a view to learning lessons by you, so that you do not repeat such mistakes. First fix your successor, then give permissions to impart training."

p. 91 "It is better to have no disciples, than to have incapable disciples. I feel that you were right in thinking that not more than four to five persons be initiated: in fact there is no harm in keeping the number even less."

p. 92 "A slave devoted to Master is one, whose guide is not capable, viz. unable to impart spiritual education properly, but is still structured as God by this disciple."

p. 92 "M5 has become a worldly person, having lost touch with spirituality. S5 is a better person, but is very gross. F1 has thoughts connected to Master, but there is upsetting in temperament: H2 is gross and useless. B7 is of uncouth temperament."

18 August 1944 pp 175-176 - Lalji's dictation to Babuji "Take the example of people starting to offer flowers to my photograph and decking it with garlands, or your clerck starting to worship the wooden footwear of his guru. These examples fall under the category of slavish animal-worship. In fact, the attachment does not remain oriented to that, whose shadow or symbol is taken as concrete object; and Reality goes out of view. With passage of time, worship of just such concrete objects come into vogue. Discriminative capacity is that when the current that connects Master and devotee is attempted to be comprehended. This is the crux matter. This constitute the definition of the refined form of discrimination. Everything else is subordinate to this."

p 177 "The work that nobody can do has been assigned to you; and the work that you are unable to do should be allocated to other people."

Part II, Vol. 3 (1945 Apr - 1955 Jun)

p 11 (29.04.1945) Intercommunication by Lalaji "(...) elders used to transmit to the heart; and then would take up the points of organic, cosmic, and beyond that, returning at the end to the points below the heart (...). In view of the changed times it is needed to take up these points also simultaneously."

"I instruct that after cleaning the heart-plexus, these lower plexuses be taken up and cleansed thoroughly, but not brought to the state of awakening. After cleaning these the organic region be cleansed. Thereafter training be kept continued from the heart onward again, as the method already laid down traditionnally."

p 21 (20.05.1945) Intercommunication by S. Vivekananda "As you are to have a registered body 'Shri Ram Chandra Mission', call a meeting of the persons who are to be the members of this body to start with. (...) The body will be called 'Shri Ram Chandra Mission, Shahjahanpur (U.P. - India)'".

p 30 (08.06.1945) Int. S. Vivekananda "You have not to live long in this world."

p 34 (13.06.1945) Int. S. Vivekananda "The time is fast approaching when your supremacy will be establish everywhere."

p 35 (13.06.1945) Int. Lalaji "The real way is the 'easy way' (Sahaj Marga). The nomenclature somehow does not appear quite good to pronouce."

p 35 (15.06.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "Registration must take place. All the rules of this society must be put before me."

p 36 (18.06.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "You are starting a new religion, destined to be that by the Grace of the Governing Agency."

p 37 (19.06.1945) Int. Lalaji "Does anybody have the courage to be prepared to undertake such a hard course of spiritual training? The necessary conditions are that for twenty five years celibacy is to be observed strictly and an attempt to develop a strong body is to be made. Then one should lead a life as a householder. After begetting children, the relationship of husband and wife is to be maintained for some time in accordance with the standard scriptural injunctions. The practice and meditation etc. should also be continued during this period, but health should be a matter of care and concern at each step. Upto the age of 40 years, maximum effort is to be devoted to becoming an adept in the science/discipline of Divine Presence. At the outset of the fourty first year, life as a householder is to be renounced, and one should start living at the place of the guide and no other relashionship except this is to be retained."

p 40 (25.06.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "You really brought forth a new religion. It is the starting point which nobody can imagine yet."

p 41 (08.07.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "The religion you discovered is quite a new one. You have changed it altogether. Its development will take time. There is a great difficulty in the way, viz. the people who come to you do not want to put in their labour. This is to say that only you will work."

p 42 (09.07.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "(...) and now take yourself as an example of starting a new religion. Really speaking, you have dissolved all the religions into one (...)."

p 47 (25.07.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "You are representing me; and the way is the Sahaj Marga."

p 48 (29.07.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "Your position as a President of the Mission is only nominal. I am working in your form at present. The same system will go on in the case of every President following you. The post is very important; and not open to everybody (...) In the case of the Mission work, I am the authority. The rest depends on your Master, who has bestowed this authority on me."

p 51 (17.08.1945) Int. Lalaji "There should be no consideration of age in a spiritual organization. (...) There is to be no question of high and low."

p 54 (23.08.1945) Int. S. Vivakananda "If malfunctionning, prevailing in your society, is not removed, you will be called upon to submit an explanation. Responsibilities lies on your shoulders. By 'malfunctionning' I mean everything against the laws of Nature."

p 55 (26.08.1945) "Instructions from Swami Vivekananda Ji concerning the emblem of the SRC Mission: [describes the emblem]."

(27.08.1945) Int. Lalaji "The method of merging in Zaat is simple and easy. It has been discovered quite well. One method is to get merged into one's guide; and the other is to have connection with and merging into Zaat directly. (...) Direct mergence into Zaat is something very fine if possible to achieve (...)."

p 62 (19.10.1945) Int. Lalaji "Everyone is to be considered as God's creation; and He is to be as Master of all."

p 65 (06.11.1945) Int. Lalaji "The start of this system, viz. Sahaj Marga, has come with dear Ram Chandra."

p 73 (17. 12. 1945) "[the condition] is the merit of the Master: He structures as He likes whom He selects; His pleasure must have to be maintained, howoever possible. It is just this that counts in spirituality; all else is just book-keeping. I have also done just this: I maintained the pleasure of my Master to the extent of my capabilitiy; and it is just His Grace that this condition could be the fortune of this slave."

p 74 "(...) a very easy device for having Master's pleasure was discovered (monney). So the subject of 'come and bring' started functionning. Disciples enhanced the valuation further: the praise of the Guru started being preached like he had done in the case of his own Guru. Sure enough, the original sermon persisted in the memory; and to whomsoever the message had to be delivered, just this thing was communicated (...). Now the herd is assembled. 'Just see brother, what is the number on the list!' This is found out; and some estimate is formed from the collection of monney that the number is still short of the requirement for the fulfilment of their personal needs. Now, what is the position! The guide has forgotten spirituality; and remains worried just about this number of disciples and the amount of collections. The disciples had already listened to the sermon concerning Master's pleasure; and they remained yoked to their duty very sincerely and actively. Now anxiety is created further, viz. the disciples who have managed and maintained the Guru's pleasure, should also be kept pleased by the Guru, so that they would not run away (...).Just this is the condition of the assembly of spiritual associates. Put it bare before them.(...) O God, such things may never occur in my progeny; and if per chance, these would have crept in, these be washed away!"

PS. All these extacts have been chosen by Christian. You can find them along with comments at: Autobiography of Ram Chandra.

Open Letter to Navneet Kumar Saxena

An Open Letter to Navneet Kumar Saxena
(Last update: May 16, 2008)

This anonymous open letter was originally published on May 8, 2008 on the blog of 4d-Don, a commentary of "Chari is Angry with Supreme court Judgement." It is addressed to Navneet Kumar Saxena, son of Umesh Chandra Saxena and grandson of Babuji.

This letter has remained unanswered to this day ...
You can find the full judgement of the Supreme Court below, as it is published on


Dear Navneet,

fine, that you are healthy and “in station” again. So, maybe, we can ask you some questions (or repeat some unanswered questions).

1. Y O U R D E C I S I O N IN ANSWER TO THE JUDGEMENT CONCERNING CIVIL APPEAL NO. 6619 OF 2000 (Supreme Court) should be given to the public. The Court decided that the decision of case of 2007 has to be done latest in 6 months. Will you take any legal activities of a so-called interim protection?

If you do, of what type will they be?

[The judgement of the Supreme Court for the case of the year 2000 says
“.....So far as ORIGINAL SUIT NO. 7359 OF 1989 is concerned, the findings recorded in the judgment therein could have constituted res judicata but the fact remains that the appellate court permitted the WITHDRAWAL OF THE SUIT and once the suit has been permitted to be WITHDRAWN all the proceedings taken therein including the judgment passed by the trial court have been wiped out. A judgment given in a suit which has been permitted to be withdrawn with the liberty of filing a fresh suit on the same cause of action CANNOT CONSTITUTE RES JUDICATE IN A SUBSEQUENT SUIT FILED PURSUANT to such permission of the court.

.... It would be appropriate to direct that THE PENDING SUIT [02/2007 HIGH COURT] shall be decided within a period of six months...

...It is open to the parties to move for such INTERIM PROTECTION ....”]


For example, for what did you need comments from other blogs? Why did you ask on for posting comments from there to your blog? (What is this policy of shifting comments from one blog to another blog? Are people asked if they agree with the shift? If not, is this honest? Didn’t you learn during study, not to make any quotations without giving the sourse of the quotation?

[From: on March 25, 2007 10:19:00 PDT PM/“Navneet said:”enter comments into new Blog Address as below I have lost comments from 124 onwards if people who have posted can re-post your welcome.”

On Posted by Navneet at 10:03 PM 1 comments/ comment 1: 4d-Don said... “Hi Navneet........ “( now comments of many bloggers are encluded in this comment 1)]. Is there any SPIRITUAL reason in this?

3.Why are you looking for “supporters” and thinking about the “ (support) of a good n u m b e r of people”?


N a v n e e t /sandeep said.., an inactive abhayase of SRCMtm (not SRCM?)]

4. Do YOU know about A H I M S A or KNOW ALL PEOPLE AS YOUR BROTHERS AND TREAT THEM AS SUCH (Or less spiritual: prohibition on vigilantism)?

And what happened to a person who was beaten up in the past by your people, W H E R E I S H E N O W ?

[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “....After about 3 to 4 months Sh. Jahangirdhar also died on the spot at his residence soon after he was given pills in name of medicine by an individual. the individual was beaten in closed room and asked who was behind it he said I can't name him otherwise he will kill me, T O O . Now I am not saying who is behind it and what was the benefit he could have got...”
A B: “Mr. Navneet Kumar, I am able to imagine what happened in this “closed room”. Can you explain if this is the practical application of your spiritual theory in life?

N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I just narrated the incident which took place and by the person who was involved in questioning the gentleman who was the tool to Sh. Jahangirdar ji’s death. Moreover, just to bring to your notice that Sh. Jehangirdar ji did tell my father 3-4 months before his death that he knows that he will also die, like Babuji died and that was the reason that he gave the last letter of Babuji to my father during his visit to Shahjahanpur.”]


5. For what was BABUJI’S NEED TO TAKE CARE OF HIS TRANSMISSION when (like others, too, do) he believed that he will never die?

["I have descended on this earth as a living person. I will go back as a l i v i n g p e r s o n and the question of my dying does not arise." -- Babuji From:


“As far as transmission is concerned, Babuji has taken care of the same before leaving his
physical Body.”

From: N a v n e e t]

6. Do you wish to draw people’s attention to the fact, that the quotation "...I have never claimed to be a is unfortunate that some people..are addressing me by that term....So in fact, the purpose of my talk is to request all of you to stop addressing me as Master” originated in the time before 1988 (it was first published in 1988), which means about 20 years back?

7. Would you agree, if your grandfather Ram Chandra of Shajahanpur was the - ONLY - GURU OF SRCM, then SRCM wasn‘t created in honor of Ram Chandra of Fategarh and there will be no sucessor in future, too?

[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I still abide by the everlasting fact that Babuji is the only and the last Guru of Shri Ram Chandra Mission.” ....“Let me clear that we are against the divisions and we still say that Babuji is the oonly GURU and shall remain till the end of this world.”

“The basic concept is that Babuji Maharaj is and shall continue to remain t h e o n l y G u r u till mahapralay ( doom's day ).” --- Lalaji Maharaj in a dream of Babuji
From: “Successors & Spiritual Repräsentatives]

8. Do you know, that many (“very normal” people, not so- called special personalities) know the exact time when they will die, that others know that they will be killed? - My question is, HOW LIVED your grandfather his life knowing that there will be an attempt on his life and how did he deal with the question of death?

[A B: “Out of his explanations it seems to me stated, too, that Babuji (the special personality) seemed to be unable to find out W H O tried to make an attempt on his life.”

N a v n e e t K u m a r: Babuji did know that the attempt was being made on his life. His last letter clearly states so too. [The question again is: WHO?] He also predicted his long hospitalization, which also was true as we know that Babuji was in hospital from September soon after coming back from Paris to April 19th 1983 (The day of his Mahasamadhi. Moreover, as pointed by A old abhyasi about my Aunty stating B a b u j i ’s r e q u e s t o f F I R before leaving to Paris also clearly states that Babuji knew what the future had store for him.]

You allow me to tell the story of a well-known man in this context,
the story of the Sufi master Mansoor Hillaj.

It is said that Mansoor al Hillaj’s way to be killed was the worst ever done up to then. First his legs were cut off, then his hands were cut. He was alive. Then his tongue was cut, then his eyes were taken out. He was still alive. He was cut in pieces.
What crime had he done?
He had said, “An’al Haq.” (“I am the Truth. I am God.”)
The Seers of the Upanishads declare, “Aham Brahmasmi.” (“I am the Brahma, the Supreme Self.”)

The people couldn’t tolerante somebody saying this.
It is said when they cut Mansoor in peaces he looked to the sky and prayed to God and said, “You cannot deceive me! I can see you in everybody present here.
You are trying to deceive me? You have come as a the murderer?
I tell you in whatever form you come, I will recognize you, because I have recognized you in myself.”

And I’d like to direct your attention to the following text: “My Master had been seriously ill in the early part of the year 1974, and had to be finally hospitalised in Lucknow, where he lay in deep coma for almost one month. In view of his advanced age - he being 75 years old then - there were deep, though unexpressed, fears that the end may not be long. It was much of a miracle to most of us when he regained consciousness, and then went on to regain health.

It was my privilege to have been with him for part of the time he was hospitalised. I also went to Shahjahanpur after he was discharged from the hospital in Lucknow, and stayed with him for many days till he was relatively in better health, after his month of long ordeal. It was then that he revealed to me that he had chosen me to be his spiritual represantive, to eventually succeed him as the President of the Mission, whenever this became necessary. Those were, for me, very moving days, driving me to tears from moment to moment. Those were the blessed days when his gentle and deeply abiding love flowed upon me, over me, like a spring drizzle under blazing sunshine. Those were also the days of the most personal intimacy between us, when there seemed to be nothing at all between us, exept our two identities. It was as if he had removed all barriers between ourselves, and we were blissfully together in a oneness that would perhaps be difficult to experience later.

It was a time of the greatest happiness for me, and, rather surprisingly, the time of the greatest sorrow for me too, for it was then that I had to face the certain knowledge that one day my beloved would leave me to go into the brighter World. This knowledge almost broke my heart. He could of course divine it at a glance, and he would gently chide me for such thoughts, saying ‘I shall be with you for many more years. Do not worry about it now. Mrs . Davies told me that I shall live till 2006 or 2007, and others have told me the same thing. So don’t cry now. I shall be with you for a long time. One day we all shall have to go. But I repeat, it is very far off.’ Thus he would chide me and comfort me. But nevertheless, I could not bear to think of the time when he would not be with me, and thus began for me the hidden sorrow in my heart, which has never left me, and which, in 1983, became the stark and devastating reality that shall haunt me for the rest of my life. .....” P. Rajagopalachari, Bangalore, 8th March 1989

Nawneet Kumar, I see that you give second-hand informations to the auditory , which - generally - in most cases are unreliable, although there may be some truth in them. And I see, that we speek different languages (see 3.).

About the time of death of your grandfather you said

“My father had gone to America for his treatment, after attending the paris function. He came to know of Babuji’s illness and that he had been taken to hospital. So he cut short his visit returned back, and t h e n r e m a i n e d w i t h B a b u j i t i l l h e w a s i n t h e h o s p i t a l ....”

[First of all: Your father could afford to go for to U. S. for medical Treatment, this in the year 1983. I know Indians (professors, physicians, I don’t speak about poor people) who - in 2008 - say they can’t afford to go to a Western country. And I remember having read somewhere that the father of the same person, Babuji, told, that he couldn’t afford to drink milk, this in the days when the first visitors came to his home. (Somewhere I read that his trips to the West were paid by Western (Danish?) abhyasis.) I am surprised about what you tell here about about a medical treatment of your father. (But this isn’t the most important aspect of the discussion here.] The question is: WHERE was your father when Babuji DIED? WHO was with Babuji when he DIED?

- You never answered these questions.

I have nobody to ask for permission to write on this or any other blog. I can’t agree with the intentions behind SOME BLOGS and some comments. Moreover I don’t believe that the so-called discussions there serve the subject. For you, Navneet, I may say: You may think you serve the interests of your grandfather. It is my strong belief, that you don’t do.

Please, answer our questions before you go out of station again!

Verdict of the Supreme Court of India

Verdict of the Supreme Court of India
(Last update: May 16, 2008)

New episode in the battle between the SRCM ® the SRCM of Shahjahanpur…

Chari is angry!

On 29 April, the eve of the anniversary of Babuji, the Supreme Court of India made its judgement in the case between Chariji and SRCM ® Navneet Kumar Saxena (grandson of Babuji and son of Umesh Chandra Saxena) and SRCM (Shahjahanpur).

Navneet released the judgement on Tell me Truth India site on May 3, and Chari has cancelled most of his travel plans in Europe at the same date. We are told that it was not for health reasons. Should we see a causal link between the judgement and the cancellation of the trip of Chari?

Navneet said that the consequences of this Supreme Court of India decision are contained in the last lines of item 4:

" Now, it only means elected by implication and that to be read in the line of Section 3(A) and 4 proviso, it is pointed out that Section 25(2) refers to election and the remedy to challenge. If there is no remedy nobody is left remedyless. Alternatively, it is submitted that assuming it is to be done by nomination, P. Rajgopalachari could have been nominated, but it has been annulled on 16.4.1982 as Umesh Chandra Saxena remains nominated. It is pointed out that role as President of the Sahaj Marg system is different. The application filed by Sh. Rajgopalachari has to be tested as per clause 3(b), these were not challenged and Rajgopalchari cannot have nay role to play. P.Rajgopalachari could not have been nominated because he is not in the direct line of succession. In any event, after passing of order dated 16.4.1982 he has no role to play. The working committee's decision, resolution of the General Body all are of similar effect. The stand is strongly opposed by the respondent to say that nomination were not merely in respect of the Sahaj Marg system system but it was in respect of President itself."

Then, Navneet added this comment:
"At last Chari, Uma Shankar Bajpai and 6 others have been chargesheeted for the criminal offence of tresspassing into the Ashram on 2nd June 2006. Their non-bailable warrants are being issued for the same from the lower court three days back."

Is Chari going to appeal it? In any case, he seems very unhappy about this turn of events. Having maintained the inauguration of the ashram of Milan, his passage at Vrads (Castle) then his return via Dubai, it is announced May 7th, that he will not go to Milan neither! For health reasons this time…

A big thank you to 4d-Don for his first-hand information.

You can find the complete judgement of the Supreme Court below, as it is published on

Appeal (civil) 6619 of 2000

Shri Ram Chandra Mission & Anr

P. Rajagopalachari & Ors

DATE OF JUDGMENT: 29/04/2008





1. Challenge in this appeal is to the judgment of a Division Bench of the Allahabad High Court. By a common judgment several civil appeals were heard together and disposed of. A common link in all these appeals was the decision of a religious cum Philanthropic Society named Sh. Ram Chandra Mission. It was established by a late Sh. Ram Chandra Ji Maharajan and on his death disputes arose. The disputes essentially relate to spiritual heirship to control the affairs of the mission. Series of litigation was resulted and the four special leaves before the High Court were summed up and by the impugned order the High Court held that all the four appeals were to be dismissed. Before the Division Bench orders of learned Single Judge were challenged. The relief sought for were categorized under five heads.

1. Grant of letters of administration in favour of Sri U.C. Saxena in respect of the properties of Sri Ram Chandra Mission through out India and abroad.
2. Declaration and Sri Umesh Chandra Saxena was the President of the Mission and the second petitioner was the Secretary thereof.
3. An interim grant during pendency of the application.
4. In the alternative appointment of a receiver in respect of the entire estate of deceased Sr. Ram Chandra Mission, and
5. Any other relief.

2. The special leaves were filed by Umesh Chandra Saxena and others, Uma Shankar and Another, the present appellants and another. Special leave by the Umesh Chandra Saxena and Anr. Sri. P. Rajagopalichari were the respondent while in the first special leave by Umesh Chandra Saxena and Anr. The Administrative General, U.P. Allahabad and others were the parties.

3. Background facts as highlighted by the appellant in this appeal are as follows:Sh. Ram Chandra Mission-Society was registered, established and founded by Maharaj, Shri Ram Chandra Ji Maharaj with its constitution, bye laws and Memorandum of Society on 21.7.1995. Purportedly there was a covering letter to the intimation dated 23.3.1974 alleged to have been executed by the founder in favour of respondent P. Rajagopalachari. This intimation according to the appellant was the result of manipulation and fraud. The nomination was declared him to be the president of society and clearly stated that he shall work for the Mission and he is "President of Sahaj Marga System". On 16.4.1982 nomination was executed in favour of Shri Umesh Chandra Saxena as spiritual representative in the direct line of succession and he was nominated as the successor or President under Rules 3 and 4 of the registered constitution, bye laws of the society. The nomination/declaration clearly stated that the previous nomination if any made by the founder stand superseded and cancelled. Founder - Shri Ram Chandraji Maharaj breathed his last on 19.4.983. On 4.1.1984 a civil suit was filed by three members of the Society in the Court of Civil Judge, Shahjanpur who granted ex-parte injunction restraining P. Rajgopalachari from acting as President. On 6.2.1984 and 7.2.1984 working Committee meeting was held at head quarters and after perusal of booklet Sh. U.C. Saxena was declared as a successor or President and also the spiritual representation in the direct line of succession on the basis of nomination of 16.4.1982. The claim of P. Rajgopalachari based on the alleged nomination dated 23.3.1994 was treated as rejected. On 8.2.1984 General Body was held at the head quarter of the Society and the claim of Sh. Umesh Chandra Saxena was approved and he was declared as spiritual representative in the direct line of succession and also as the successor or President of the society. Claim of P. Rajgopalachari based on the alleged nomination was rejected. On 15.2.1982 a circular was issued by Secretary Sh. S. A. Sarnad informing all members regarding the declaration of Sh. Umesh Chandra Saxena as Successor President and the spiritual representative in the direct line of succession. An amendment was carried out to the Societies Registration Act, 1860 on 30.4.1984. Section 3(A) was amended by the substitution of sub section 4 of Section 3(A) and addition of a proviso to Section 4(1). By virtue of Section 3(a)(4). List of the members of the managing Committee Body elected was required to be filed. Ex-parte injunction was granted on 4.1.1984 was confirmed on 9.4.1984. In appeal by respondent No. 1, P. Rajgopalachari the High Court granted stay of injunction. The High Court allowed the first appeal and set aside the injunction order. SLP filed against the order of the High Court was dismissed by this Court on 27.9.1985. The suit was subsequently withdrawn on 10.7.1997 on giving of an undertaking not to alignate and not to shift the head quarters. On 23.1.1988 elections were held at the head quarters in accordance with Section 3(A)(4) and Section 4 and the office bearers were duly elected Sh. S.P. Srivastava as President and Sh. B.D. Mahajan as Secretary respectively. On 24.4.1990 in proceeding under Section 25 of the Act report of the Tehsildar counter signed by the SDM as the prescribed authority under Section 25 was passed recognizing the representation of aforesaid two persons as the President and Secretary. On 29.7.1991 another report was given by the tehsildar and K.G. in a proceeding under Section 25 recognising the same position. The aforesaid reports were questioned on behalf of respondent No. 1 before the prescribed authority by an application called SU-2/91 the application was rejected by the prescribed authority and earlier reports were confirmed. An application was moved by 75 members of the society for action under Section 25(2) of the Act on 20.4.1993. On 15.2.1994 elections were held and Sh. Umesh Chandra Saxena and Sh.K.V. Reddy were elected as President and Secretary respectively. on 29.9.1994 the Assistant Registrar passed order holding that since the Constitution provides for nomination of President election cannot be conducted. He also held that in view of the interim orders in civil suit OS (No.) 200 of 1983 the respondent No. 1 P. Rajagopalachari shall continue to work as President. As noted above the suit was withdrawn on 10.7.1997 with liberty to file fresh suit. On 10.7.1997 writ petition No. 37023 of 1994 filed against the order dated 29.9.1994 was dismissed by learned Single Judge. On 24.11.1998 the Division Bench dismissed the special leave No. 580 of 1987 holding that since under the Rules of the society the post of the President and Members of the working committee is not an elected one, Section 25 would not come out and took play. The High Court, however held that Registrar had no authority to direct anybody to continue an office. It was further held that the application under Section 25(2) itself was untenable and so was the writ petition. On 22.1.1999 elections were held and again Umesh Chandra Saxena and Sh. K. V. Reddy were elected as President and Secretary in accordance with the amended provisions of the Act. On 3.11.2003 Sh. Umesh Chandra Saxena expired and Navneet Kumar Saxena was elected unanimously as the President of the Society in an emergent meeting which was held at Hyderabad by working committee. The general Body on 22.11.2003 had approved and confirmed the election of the Navneet Kumar Saxena as the President of the society. Further the amendment proposed and adopted by the General body of the society, in order to make the rules in consonance of the provisions of the Act. On 12.2.2005 elections were held in the society for electing the Managing committee and again Navneet Kumar Saxena and K. V. Reddy was elected as the president and Secretary respectively.

4. Primarily the stand is that if Section 3(A)(4) as introduced by Act 11 of 1984 cannot be given a restricted meaning. If it is elected to Managing Body "elected" then the provision made would be rendered "nugatory". It is intended to provide that even if Rules, say otherwise "elections" has to be introduced, Section4 (Proviso) is also relevant. The stand is that earlier there was no need for list of elected members as there was no elected member. So the purpose is to have elected members. Section 4 speaks of an annual list. If the intention was that the members were to be elected, the legislature could have said so specifically without leaving it to be inferred by implication. Section 27 provides for the consequence for non compliance with Section 4. It is stated that the position in 1975 was that chosen includes "election". Now, it only means elected by implication and that to be read in the line of Section 3(A) and 4 proviso, it is pointed out that Section 25(2) refers to election and the remedy to challenge. If there is no remedy nobody is left remedyless. Alternatively, it is submitted that assuming it is to be done by nomination, P. Rajgopalachari could have been nominated, but it has been annulled on 16.4.1982 as Umesh Chandra Saxena remains nominated. It is pointed out that role as President of the Sahaj Marg system is different. The application filed by Sh. Rajgopalachari has to be tested as per clause 3(b), these were not challenged and Rajgopalchari cannot have nay role to play. P.Rajgopalachari could not have been nominated because he is not in the direct line of succession. In any event, after passing of order dated 16.4.1982 he has no role to play. The working committee's decision, resolution of the General Body all are of similar effect. The stand is strongly opposed by the respondent to say that nomination were not merely in respect of the Sahaj Marg system system but it was in respect of President itself.

5. It is pointed out that the earlier suit having direct effect was withdrawn and the effect of it has to be considered. The effect of the withdrawal of a suit has been considered by this Court in K. Sivaramaiah v. Rukmani Ammal [2004(1) SCC 471]. It was inter alia observed as follows:

"So far as Original Suit No. 7359 of 1989 is concerned, the findings recorded in the judgment therein could have constituted res judicata but the fact remains that the appellate court permitted the withdrawal of the suit and once the suit has been permitted to be withdrawn all the proceedings taken therein including the judgment passed by the trial court have been wiped out. A judgment given in a suit which has been permitted to be withdrawn with the liberty of filing a fresh suit on the same cause of action cannot constitute res judicate in a subsequent suit filed pursuant to such permission of the court."

6. It is not necessary to deal with the true import of Sections 3(A) and 4. It would be appropriate to direct that the pending suit shall be decided within a period of six months.

7. The effect and relevance of any proceedings which have attained finality shall be duly considered in the pending suit. It is open to the parties to move for such interim protection as the circumstances warrant. The appeal stands disposed of accordingly. No order as to costs.